“If this all ends tomorrow, at least I’ve got this amazing family we’ve built”: LAYKS on new EP and future goals
With the release of his sophomore EP, If This All Ends Tomorrow, we caught up with LAYKS (Sam J Martin) to discuss the inspiration behind the project, his creative process and production evolution, the impact of COVID on the music industry and his work, and his future aspirations.
“If this all ends tomorrow, at least I’ve got this amazing family we’ve built”
To start things off, please tell us a bit about the inspiration behind the EP, what you want the listeners to expect, and what you wish they'd take away from the EP.
Compared to the first EP, which was a lot more introspective, Cry Baby was like a diary entry, while If This All Ends Tomorrow is more me speaking to the people who have found my music and listen to me now. So, it's kind of an EP for them. I think the general theme, I mean the title, If This All Ends Tomorrow, is very much just saying, 'Enjoy the things you have, enjoy the good things you have while they're here and, as hard as it might be, try not to focus on the things you don't have or how bad things might be.'
When I started recording the EP, I was in a really good headspace, and it's a little bit of gratitude. But it's also me saying that if this all ends tomorrow, at least I've got this amazing family we've built, and I hope people take that away. Many of the songs are pretty heavy, but they're delivered in quite a light-hearted way. But yes, the big theme running through the EP is just enjoy the things you have.
I'm glad you brought up the EP title, as it suggests contemplating life's transience and the importance of living in the moment. How did tracks like Ghost Town and Find Me then contribute to this overarching theme of existential reflection?
Those two are my favourites from the EP, and I think they're almost related in a way — like sibling songs. Ghost Town is about feeling incredibly lonely and being left in the dust by everyone. This industry is quite challenging sometimes, and when I wrote Ghost Town, it was written and recorded quite quickly — just two hours, I think. There was a bit of contention around some friendships and people in my life, which, in my opinion, comes across pretty well in the track as it was an immediate thing. But yeah, those two songs are about feeling pretty lost and how one person or one group of people can bring you back to yourself. For me, those are the people I talk to every day and the people who listen to my music. I always say to others that we've built the best family, and while it isn't the biggest family by any means, it is a close and tight-knit one. Those two songs relate to each other and are the bloodline for the whole EP.
To continue with the existential reflection question, after COVID and the world shutting down, I felt the importance of living in the moment and not hesitating to try something out like never before. At the same time, there was this pressure and FOMO that caused a lot of stress and strain on mental health. What was your experience as a musician during COVID, and how might that have influenced this record and its overarching theme?
I mean, everything changed, right? Every single aspect of life as we know it totally changed and none of us knew what would happen or how to deal with it. We were never given an emotional debriefing, not just in music but in every industry, of 'Okay, this is how you deal with this'. There are some really good things and also some really bad things that came out of that time. LAYKS wouldn't have happened without that period of isolation.
In 2021, the first EP came out, and, as you said, it was a mixture of FOMO and the feeling that if I do nothing, I've come out this further back than I was before. So that's how LAYKS started, as I wanted to have something that was a project to work on without the pressure of it doing well. It does well? That's great! If I don't really do anything with it, that's also fine. I had all my hard drive hits that I simply wanted to put somewhere, and then it grew into this. For me, this was also the most challenging thing: not knowing what would happen. Then all the shows were cancelled, all of our festivals were cancelled, and I told myself, alright, get busy doing something else.
The platform that was built has been very important; it's been my emotional support bubble. This EP is definitely a response to that period of life, like a check-in. It's a status update: 'This is where I am now; how is everyone doing? Are we all good?' because you never really know. My challenges were linked to everybody else's in some way.
That's an interesting perspective for the EP, a check-in.
Oh yeah, it's like an old-school status update you used to post, like what you're having for dinner, and it's nice. With this EP, I've noticed more people have connected to the songs on a personal level because you can interpret them however you want.
The first LAYKS EP came out in 2021 following a trip to LA in 2019, where you recorded in studios like Glass House and Conway Studios. While some time has now passed since that trip, and you have released another project as well, how did your experiences in LA influence the sound and direction of this EP?
The way I approach music, in general, has definitely changed. I flew to LA by myself in 2019 after a friend suggested I go out and just see if I liked it. And I loved it. I had been releasing music under my own name for ages and hadn't worked with many other people. All the music I was then recording didn't sound like anything I'd done before, so I put it in my back pocket to wait and see if I could use it at some point. Then COVID happened, and I thought of slowly releasing all the music I boxed away. But you have a changing relationship with anything you do, depending on where you are, and there are some fantastic musicians in LA. Some lovely people gave me excellent advice to remind myself to stick to my guns and do what makes me happy, as I always had two minds about what I should release. I thought I'd released music as Sam J Martin for years; should I do something new? And every time I'd think about what makes me happy, the thought of LA and LAYKS with the little world I made around it, that's what makes me happy. That trip also taught me a lot; it made me a better musician and more well-rounded in everything, hopefully.
How do you feel this EP represents the progression and evolution from your debut EP, Cry Baby?
It's almost like a sequel, although I didn't want to do a Cry Baby 2.0. It's Cry Baby's sadder brother, in a way. I did an interview with my friend Mikey from Studio 1, and he said the first EP sounds like a sunrise, which I found a good way of putting it, as this EP is more of 'The sun's gone down. Things aren't this great.' I think that's a fair comparison. They're a natural progression and a good pairing, you know?
You've been experimenting with new ways of writing and recording on this project. Can you please share some examples of those explorations? Were they challenging you out of your comfort zone, or were you simply having fun?
One thing I realised going into recording this EP is that I'm such a nerd, and I'm obsessed with making music and weird things. Like, weird stuff sounds good. I've been recording since I was 14/15 years old, so I've got the experience of a traditional setup. With this EP, I was like, I'm going to mic up a piano and sing into the back of it and then reverse it; it's weird stuff like that. I also experimented with a lot of different textures in this EP. If you listen with good headphones or speakers, you can hear strange little artefacts coming through, such as more strings or weird synths.
Nonetheless, I didn't want any of that to get in the way of the songs, so I was making it up as I went along with the experimenting. Some days, I'd walk out of the studio and think it was terrible; I got nothing from that; other days, I'd be excited about the result. I really enjoyed layering, like loads of layering, but also taking things away. I produce for many people as well, so I've learned a lot of little production tricks that I've used for the first time that I didn't necessarily know about in 2021. It's been really fun, honestly.
Do you think it's been important for you to maintain a balance between organic versus more electronic elements in your production, or do you go more with the flow and see what's right at the moment?
That's an amazing point! I think I've always been super conscious of that balance. I was five years old when I started playing guitar, and I very much wanted to be a guitar god. I love Hendrix, Jimmy Page, and Eric Clapton; I was old-school with everything, and it all had to be a real instrument. As I grew up, I realised that the world is a lot bigger than, you know, guitars and amps and things I've always been obsessed with, and I fell in love with the electronic stuff, too. A friend of mine described my sound as something between Nine Inch Nails and a pop thing, a poppy band with some weird electronic stuff in it. I love that comparison because I grew up with the grungy, late 90s/early 00s stuff, but I also adore acoustic music. So, I'm always trying to find something that works and combines the two. Balance is super important, and I always scrap stuff if it sounds too much like one thing.
If you're mixing and matching these two styles, how would you then title this genre of music?
Technically, it's 'alternative', but I would say more alternative indie rock. It's hard to categorise it as simply 'alternative' because you listen to one thing, and it sounds totally different from your 'alternative'. There's a lot of pop in my music too. The next stuff I'm already working on sounds entirely different for If This All Ends Tomorrow. But 'alternative' is a good balance between the two, like a hybrid. Hybrid alternative, that's quite cool. Yeah, I'm making up a genre.
Hybrid alternative; go for it, absolutely! Can you walk us through a typical process of creating a song? Do you normally start with the melody or lyrics? Did this process differ, if at all, from Cry Baby?
Typically, it almost always starts on guitar or piano. I'll have an idea in my hands, just something I'm messing around with, and then I'll start having a melody; it changes sometimes. It sounds really funny, but I've heard many songwriters do this: they'll make random noises around the melody and try to find words that fit. So, for Find Me, I was just messing around with different sounds and thought, 'Oh, I could say 'find me' here'. In an hour, the song was written from this random little loop. But it changes. Sometimes, I know I will sit down and write a song called this, and this is what it'll sound like. Cowboy was written in this way. I was walking around the live room of Abbey Road knowing I would write a song called Cowboy, but other times, it's like a happy accident. So, typically, it's guitar and vocals, and then I'll work on the production, like the drums and synths. I play everything myself; therefore, controlling the input is easier.
It is nice that you have complete control over the entire creative process when the creative outlet comes solely from you, and you don't have to rely on others.
Yeah, that's a fantastic point. I also think that the band I play with live, Cal and Lee - they're amazing musicians, and when it comes to being in the studio, I really need to feel everything that's coming out of my head; I have to try everything, and that can be harder sometimes with other people. There are a lot of ideas flying around, and it's hard. One thing I want to get better at is collaborating creatively with people. Right now, it's all me, and it depends on what I'm in the mood for. If I'm playing something on the piano I like, I'll attempt to write some lyrics to it, the same with guitar. It's generally like that.
I like how you said that you try everything out when you have an idea rather than sticking to a specific format you're used to or, you know, are comfortable working with. Have you had that feeling of, "If I try this out and it's not what I'm used to, or what my listeners are used to," where you questioned if it would do well? Have you ever had that worry?
Definitely. Oh, God, 100%. I always worry, like, is this going too far? Is it too comfortable? Am I only doing this because it will be easy to listen to? You know, songs like Alright almost didn't make the EP because it was treading that line for me trying to be a really big pop song. I thought, right, change it up a bit and add some things to not make it sound like 'that'. And it's really tough. I was watching a Rick Rubin interview where he said, "You know the audience comes last; you have to love it first," and, personally, I am always writing music with everyone in mind. I'm always thinking about the amazing people that listen to my music. On the other hand, if I don't love something, I know that I will get on stage and dread playing it every night, so I have to always really enjoy the song to release it. Always a struggle for sure.
With how saturated the industry is becoming, I feel many artists are losing that sense of self, where they start to release music more for people rather than liking it and being proud of the work they put out themselves. It's amazing and worth noting that you not only put out music with your listeners in mind but also what you appreciate yourself. I believe that is also reflected well in your debut EP and If This All Ends Tomorrow.
That's amazing to hear; thank you so much. As you said, the industry is super saturated. A lot is coming out, and, you know, attention spans aren't always what they used to be. I think the root of the problem is that some artists are writing and releasing music as content, not as art. This is a very important conversation to have as well because artists need to understand that their music should come from a place of 'I want to write and release something because I like it, and I think others might enjoy it'. If I didn't enjoy this stuff, I wouldn't bother putting it out, I just wouldn't. I'd go and do something else, like painting or something. We have to remember that you sometimes have to let yourself be a 5-year-old again and remind yourself that you're just playing and enjoying yourself. Just do things because you love them. When I work with new musicians and produce for artists, they always have that kind of internal struggle, and I always ask them what do you want to hear? If you could release music, what would you like to hear coming from you? That garners the best results, the most genuine results. So, keep it personal, but also enjoy what you do.
For sure. With so much new music being released by emerging artists, platforms like TikTok, Instagram, etc., allow listeners to see them from a different perspective. It's easier to see now when artists are creating music if it's music that they're proud of rather than simply for the sake of it doing well in charts and getting radio play. It's becoming clearer for listeners to find and connect to artists on a deeper level because you can see who's genuine.
Absolutely, that's so true, and that's the biggest thing that's changed in the last year or so. People are starting to see through a lot more, and they can tell if you're doing something just to appease the algorithm and cater to trends. It's why I've never really paid too much mind to any of that stuff because I know, for example, with shows like last night and last week, if you can still get bodies in a room, and you still enjoy playing music with your friends, it doesn't matter how many million streams or view you're getting. I always tell people that those things can always go up, and they can't come down. So don't spend your life catering to something, especially an algorithm that changes every hour; look after yourself and how you feel about what you're doing. If you've got good people around you, and all my fans and followers are unbelievably sweet, I'm just very lucky. I do it for them.
The right people will always find you; you don't have to worry about anything.
100%, absolutely.
Going back to the EP, is there a particular track on the EP that holds a special significance to you lyrically, or any specific lyrics on the EP that have personal importance?
I'm Trying is probably the most vulnerable song I've put out, not just as LAYKS but in general, because it's literally just me talking to myself saying, I'm pretty sure I've seen this before, this trend of not feeling great, and I don't like how it ends. I'm pretty sure the song idea was a notes entry when I was having a really sad day. Every lyric in that song is very intentional. It's definitely a sad song, although, at the end, there's this reprise of, if this ends tomorrow, at least I know I've tried. I've got all these people by my side, and it's actually going to be okay, regardless of how hard it may feel right now. When I sang that song last week, and people in the front row started singing the bridge back to me, I told myself don't cry, don't cry, oh it's too late, I'll cry. It's a very special song to me.
To touch upon your live shows, what is the most important part of them for you, and what kind of space do you want to create with them for your audience?
Well, for starters, remembering all the words is good. No, seriously, I always worry that I will forget them. But this is an amazing question. It's really cool. I think simply having a community sort of feeling where it's a safe space with everyone. I want the space to feel like we are simply hanging out; I don't want the feeling of it being me and them and the barrier, but rather as if we're just hanging out in someone's living room. I think that's coming across now that we're expanding our live set more and more; I never want to lose that connection. It's very, very close.
How has the fans' reception been since the EP's release, either from what you see online or from what you experience at the live shows?
It's been amazing. Honestly, I was blown away the first day; even in the first three hours, it exceeded every sort of personal record I've had in terms of streams, but beyond that. Just the amount of messages and lovely things people have been saying, such as how it's helped them through different things. People from various parts of the world, ones I didn't even know my music was known in, have been sending lovely messages. The response has been overwhelming; I've been sitting in bed, scrolling through my phone in tears, reading all these messages. I can't believe that these songs I wrote in my living room are now actually with people. It's a weird feeling because the songs go from being your little secret to like, go, be out in the world, thrive, do your thing! It's been beautiful and really, really overwhelming.
When you release music that opens up a window and sheds light on a secret, hidden part of you that's often vulnerable, it can be incredibly daunting, as you don't know how it'll be received and perceived. How do you deal with this anxiety of opening up and sharing this vulnerable state and putting it out for the whole world to hear?
That's always a balance that I've tried to strike between being super open and closed off. It's taken a while to get over that and realise that some things are just way too personal to write about. I think I've gotten better at metering that stuff from things I'm willing to share, but it's tough. It's a tricky balance because you never know how people will interpret your writing until it's out. It's also important to think about when writing and releasing music. There are some songs I've not put out yet that I have to stop and think if they're too exposing in a way. But I'm also getting better at saying: you're feeling this; there's a chance that someone else might be as well, so maybe you can put it out. I was definitely scared more by this a few years ago, but I've gradually gotten over it.
It's beautiful when people start relating to music, even if it's in a completely different way than you intended for the world to hear it. That also builds a community of such different people, who all come from various backgrounds with vastly different experiences. I think that's just so beautiful.
Yeah, that's the beautiful thing with all of it, right? You can hear something meant for something else and interpret it completely differently. This is why it's nice not to have it available when people ask for lyrics and stuff. When you hear a song for the first time, you begin second-guessing it and then later go through the lyrics and see what was actually intended. The wonderful thing about music as an art form is that it's a universal language, isn't it? You can interpret it in any way, which is really cool.
Looking ahead, what are your aspirations for If This All Ends Tomorrow and LAYKS as a musical project in general?
I just want to keep doing more of what I'm doing, bring it to more people, and play bigger shows for more people. I don't set myself a five-year goal, I just try and build it every day as it is. LAYKS is growing more than I thought it would, week to week, which is just amazing. So yeah, more of this, but on a bigger scale would be pretty cool. We're heading on a European Tour this summer, and I've booked my first headline show in New York, which is crazy. Really daunting but also really exciting.
That's incredible. Good luck with the upcoming shows, and congratulations again on the EP release!
If This All Ends Tomorrow is available to listen to now on every streaming platform.